1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:01,790 hey this is John Flansburg if they might 2 00:00:12,169 --> 00:00:03,210 be giants and you're listening to the 3 00:00:15,110 --> 00:00:12,179 skeptic zone welcome to the skeptic zone 4 00:00:30,609 --> 00:00:15,120 the podcast from Australia for science 5 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:33,830 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 6 00:00:40,130 --> 00:00:37,050 from a stormy Sydney Australia this is 7 00:00:44,180 --> 00:00:40,140 episode number 367 on the first of 8 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:44,190 November 2015 as I look outside the 9 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:48,260 window here grace guys scattered cloud 10 00:00:55,340 --> 00:00:51,690 mixture of dark and light grey bolts of 11 00:00:58,580 --> 00:00:55,350 lightning thunder near and far I better 12 00:01:00,170 --> 00:00:58,590 watch out I thought I'd give you a 13 00:01:01,910 --> 00:01:00,180 little bit ok so now I thought I'd give 14 00:01:04,490 --> 00:01:01,920 you a little bit of local atmosphere 15 00:01:05,420 --> 00:01:04,500 coming up on this week's show as you 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:05,430 heard right at the top of the show a 17 00:01:08,870 --> 00:01:06,930 nice little introduction there by John 18 00:01:11,660 --> 00:01:08,880 flensburg from they might be giants 19 00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:11,670 Maynard catches up with him to talk 20 00:01:18,490 --> 00:01:16,500 about the album about science and some 21 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:18,500 two dates for they might be giants oh 22 00:01:24,230 --> 00:01:21,390 wow that was a big bowl of lightning 23 00:01:30,270 --> 00:01:24,240 about two kilometres away I'm guessing 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:32,219 those of you who good at counting can 25 00:01:36,690 --> 00:01:34,930 configure that out after that we have a 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:36,700 talk from skeptic camp which was just 27 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:37,690 before the Australian National 28 00:01:42,210 --> 00:01:39,610 Convention a few weeks ago in Brisbane 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:42,220 where Maureen Chuck will talk about the 30 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:46,090 court case and the outcome the heavy 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:49,090 penalty awarded against homeopathy plus 32 00:01:54,690 --> 00:01:51,490 and fran sheffield homeopathy plus you 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:54,700 might remember the outfit the zany wacky 34 00:02:00,359 --> 00:01:57,130 outfit that was publicizing on their 35 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:00,369 website the the news the information 36 00:02:04,529 --> 00:02:02,170 that you can use their magic sugar water 37 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:04,539 to protect against things like pertussis 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:08,080 oh dear do they get their comeuppance oh 39 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:12,130 yes they do find out soon with the top 40 00:02:20,490 --> 00:02:14,140 given by Maureen Chuck that was another 41 00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:20,500 big bolt of lightning I just saw Wow 42 00:02:25,890 --> 00:02:23,920 mm-hmm been to round off the show it's 43 00:02:27,870 --> 00:02:25,900 Maynard spooky action at the National 44 00:02:30,690 --> 00:02:27,880 Convention part two of his interview 45 00:02:32,790 --> 00:02:30,700 with Joan nickel the legendary skeptical 46 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:32,800 investigator this week Joe will be 47 00:02:38,550 --> 00:02:36,910 talking about Thunder no you won't it's 48 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:38,560 a lot of thunder this week Joe will be 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:40,930 talking about the Shroud of Turin how to 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:45,010 investigate mysteries and UFO abductions 51 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:47,410 now this man is the man who knows all 52 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:48,970 about these subjects what a fascinating 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:51,489 man he is and thank you again to maenad 54 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:54,250 for such a wonderful interview part 2 of 55 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:56,170 the interview of joe nickell coming up 56 00:03:01,500 --> 00:02:58,810 at the end of the show and now it's time 57 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:01,510 for me to run quickly downstairs away 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:03,880 from this thunder and lightning i open 59 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:06,010 up my mother's old recipe book and make 60 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:09,310 up a batch of peanut butter cookies stay 61 00:03:13,820 --> 00:03:11,290 tuned to the end of this episode after 62 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:13,830 the music for an easter egg and 63 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:15,870 about peanut butter cookies i like them 64 00:03:20,750 --> 00:03:17,370 so much I've liked them since the late 65 00:03:23,450 --> 00:03:20,760 60s you might enjoy them too well I do 66 00:03:39,190 --> 00:03:23,460 all that I hope you enjoy the skeptic 67 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:44,390 here's my not spooky action at the 68 00:03:58,780 --> 00:03:55,080 iron is a metal you say it every day 69 00:04:03,850 --> 00:03:58,790 oxygen eventually we'll take it rust 70 00:04:08,710 --> 00:04:03,860 away carbon in it's Ordinary Form is 71 00:04:15,069 --> 00:04:08,720 cold crush it together and diamonds are 72 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:15,079 born look at us that they've actually 73 00:04:18,729 --> 00:04:17,209 Giants the two John's Flansburg who were 74 00:04:21,039 --> 00:04:18,739 speaking to and mr. little they will be 75 00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:21,049 touring across Australia in November go 76 00:04:26,020 --> 00:04:23,840 see them they formed in 82 according to 77 00:04:28,090 --> 00:04:26,030 wikipedia my favorite album of theirs is 78 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:28,100 Apollo 18 my favorite track on the album 79 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:30,380 is fingertips their last album was 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:32,210 nanobots my favorite song on that was 81 00:04:38,469 --> 00:04:36,410 Tesla there that that's about me aha how 82 00:04:42,219 --> 00:04:38,479 well we've had a new album out since 83 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:42,229 then called gleam and I think I think 84 00:04:47,650 --> 00:04:44,570 all your new favourite songs are on that 85 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:47,660 oh okay well i will update my software 86 00:04:53,589 --> 00:04:49,610 in my brain on that immediately after 87 00:04:55,690 --> 00:04:53,599 the interview yeah yeah although strange 88 00:04:57,969 --> 00:04:55,700 strangely enough we actually have two 89 00:04:59,790 --> 00:04:57,979 more albums coming out in the next four 90 00:05:02,110 --> 00:04:59,800 months well you've got you've got a 91 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:02,120 greatest hits double CD coming out 92 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:04,310 fairly shortly in Australia 50 million 93 00:05:09,339 --> 00:05:06,110 they might be giant songs can't be wrong 94 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:09,349 on an Elvis tip there yeah yeah that 95 00:05:14,589 --> 00:05:11,840 john linnell cooked up that title i love 96 00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:14,599 the title i think it's uh it's very it's 97 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:16,460 very appropriate especially considering 98 00:05:20,860 --> 00:05:19,370 that it's a double CD with like a you 99 00:05:24,580 --> 00:05:20,870 know it seems like it's got like 30 100 00:05:27,430 --> 00:05:24,590 songs a disc on it so it's really it's 101 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:27,440 oversized so how did you choose the ones 102 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:29,210 to go on they do to you have an arm 103 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:32,000 wrestle how did you work it out oh we 104 00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:33,650 did it the old-fashioned way we look we 105 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:36,430 let the record company figure it out we 106 00:05:45,010 --> 00:05:40,690 the one the first disc is actually from 107 00:05:47,890 --> 00:05:45,020 a compilation that we that we did with 108 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:47,900 rhino and the United States a few years 109 00:05:54,460 --> 00:05:51,710 back which I think I think what's called 110 00:05:56,830 --> 00:05:54,470 the users guide so that was kind of like 111 00:05:59,200 --> 00:05:56,840 a greatest hits of like the first 112 00:06:02,020 --> 00:05:59,210 15 or 20 years of our career and then 113 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:02,030 the second disc was combat compiled by 114 00:06:08,020 --> 00:06:04,820 the Australian record company who are 115 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:08,030 very very thoughtful about how to do it 116 00:06:12,490 --> 00:06:09,770 and did a good job and I don't think 117 00:06:14,170 --> 00:06:12,500 there was any I can't remember there was 118 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:14,180 some there were some small revisions but 119 00:06:19,270 --> 00:06:17,840 nothing nothing to too picky now i want 120 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:19,280 to point to the science album because I 121 00:06:23,590 --> 00:06:21,710 do love the science album the here comes 122 00:06:26,379 --> 00:06:23,600 science that was a great album thank you 123 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:26,389 and and and great for kids too and look 124 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:29,090 if we were to play a song off that we've 125 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:30,590 gone through the one about the Sun the 126 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:32,330 controversial Sun issue which we all 127 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:33,650 know about but is that one on that do 128 00:06:37,510 --> 00:06:35,450 you think P you think people could well 129 00:06:38,860 --> 00:06:37,520 you know it was controversial a dime is 130 00:06:40,330 --> 00:06:38,870 that one you think people could learn 131 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:40,340 something from off that album that they 132 00:06:46,450 --> 00:06:44,210 don't think about normally well I mean 133 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:46,460 the song meet the elements is actually a 134 00:06:52,870 --> 00:06:48,970 pretty good little sort of you know 135 00:06:54,580 --> 00:06:52,880 primary course in how elements what the 136 00:06:57,010 --> 00:06:54,590 elements are and and what it's all about 137 00:07:01,570 --> 00:06:57,020 can I ask you mr. plans what is your 138 00:07:03,779 --> 00:07:01,580 favorite element oh I'm personally very 139 00:07:06,010 --> 00:07:03,789 fond of oxygen whenever I can guess 140 00:07:08,350 --> 00:07:06,020 that's true it does tend to be popular 141 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:08,360 I'm a bit of a fan of amira conium just 142 00:07:13,719 --> 00:07:11,630 because it's so rare and unusual oh that 143 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:13,729 sounds like a good one is that as that a 144 00:07:18,310 --> 00:07:16,610 one of the expansion team yeah it's one 145 00:07:20,379 --> 00:07:18,320 of the expansion ones it's very rare 146 00:07:21,670 --> 00:07:20,389 it's in most phones and electronics in a 147 00:07:23,710 --> 00:07:21,680 small amount and there's only a few 148 00:07:25,510 --> 00:07:23,720 places in the world you can mine and I 149 00:07:28,690 --> 00:07:25,520 think getting and a little bit in China 150 00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:28,700 we have some in Australia of course was 151 00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:30,620 it added to the periodic table like 152 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:33,320 later on yeah yes it was yeah right 153 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:35,090 right right because there are like 154 00:07:39,670 --> 00:07:37,130 there's like a half dozen or so right 155 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:39,680 there to all new and they all have names 156 00:07:45,159 --> 00:07:41,930 like that there are like unobtainium e 157 00:07:46,690 --> 00:07:45,169 yes which is the great name and it must 158 00:07:49,659 --> 00:07:46,700 have been great going through and doing 159 00:07:51,190 --> 00:07:49,669 the track oh I mean the sign that was a 160 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:51,200 really big challenge because it was like 161 00:07:55,390 --> 00:07:52,970 are you familiar with the concept of the 162 00:07:57,219 --> 00:07:55,400 peter principle which is like the idea 163 00:07:59,500 --> 00:07:57,229 of being promoted to your level of 164 00:08:01,210 --> 00:07:59,510 incompetent oh yes that's where but 165 00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:01,220 people naturally rise to the level where 166 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:02,870 they keep trying to do things until 167 00:08:08,890 --> 00:08:04,340 eventually they get to the level where 168 00:08:10,460 --> 00:08:08,900 they fail yeah I feel like having you 169 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:10,470 know the people at Disney were very calm 170 00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:12,540 evident that we could do this science 171 00:08:18,860 --> 00:08:15,180 album it's also very unusual to have 172 00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:18,870 your lyrics peer reviewed yeah exactly 173 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:22,350 and you know I think I if we knew you 174 00:08:26,750 --> 00:08:24,930 know we know a lot about music but we 175 00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:26,760 weren't doing a here comes music out we 176 00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:28,590 were doing a science album so so we 177 00:08:32,839 --> 00:08:31,140 really needed some we needed some 178 00:08:35,659 --> 00:08:32,849 outside confirmation that we weren't 179 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:35,669 just completely full of it well but 180 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:37,409 thank you John plans maybe look forward 181 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:39,690 to seeing you in Australia go see them 182 00:08:42,589 --> 00:08:41,280 people you gotta have a lot of fun think 183 00:08:44,420 --> 00:08:42,599 about whether you want to be people or 184 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:44,430 Apes before you go it could be a bit 185 00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:46,590 confrontational at the time for a band 186 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:47,940 that that's so you know you actually 187 00:08:52,370 --> 00:08:49,650 divisive as a band when you do that with 188 00:08:54,140 --> 00:08:52,380 no audience and I love it oh thank you 189 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:54,150 so much for a pleasure it's been a 190 00:08:56,330 --> 00:08:55,290 pleasure thank you enjoy the rest of 191 00:08:57,860 --> 00:08:56,340 your day and i hope you interview is a 192 00:09:06,840 --> 00:08:57,870 great thank you seeing australia john 193 00:09:11,229 --> 00:09:09,159 hello may not here with some of these 194 00:09:13,989 --> 00:09:11,239 they might be giants to a dates isn't 195 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:13,999 John Flansburg a lovely man okay for 196 00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:16,399 Australian listeners on the second of 197 00:09:19,989 --> 00:09:17,809 November they'll be in Perth Western 198 00:09:22,479 --> 00:09:19,999 Australia on the fourth of November 199 00:09:25,119 --> 00:09:22,489 hindmarsh of Australia get to that one 200 00:09:26,859 --> 00:09:25,129 that's the governor fortitude valley of 201 00:09:29,079 --> 00:09:26,869 course where else the Tivoli in 202 00:09:31,179 --> 00:09:29,089 Queensland on the fifth of November on 203 00:09:32,590 --> 00:09:31,189 the sixth of November that's when i'll 204 00:09:33,969 --> 00:09:32,600 be at sydney new south wales i'll be 205 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:33,979 wandering around with my microphone at 206 00:09:37,659 --> 00:09:35,569 the enmore theatre come and say hello 207 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:37,669 and then in melbourne on the seventh or 208 00:09:42,210 --> 00:09:39,769 november at the forum theatre and then 209 00:09:45,219 --> 00:09:42,220 of course they'll be in portland arm 210 00:09:47,619 --> 00:09:45,229 Emmy I think that's Maine Portland me 211 00:09:49,479 --> 00:09:47,629 you know at the port Portland City Music 212 00:09:51,069 --> 00:09:49,489 Hall that'll be on the nineteenth of 213 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:51,079 November and then of course for those 214 00:09:55,239 --> 00:09:52,910 people in Leeds they might be giants 215 00:09:58,749 --> 00:09:55,249 play leads on the twenty-seventh of 216 00:10:00,759 --> 00:09:58,759 January the brutal social club the final 217 00:10:03,069 --> 00:10:00,769 Polly break out there later and of 218 00:10:04,569 --> 00:10:03,079 course Glasgow where a fight has 219 00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:04,579 probably broken out Evans was speaking 220 00:10:11,289 --> 00:10:07,519 on the thirty-first of January they're 221 00:10:13,210 --> 00:10:11,299 playing there and it's in Petersburg 222 00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:13,220 Florida oh it's Florida okay that's on 223 00:10:20,379 --> 00:10:18,649 the fifth of April next year and all the 224 00:10:22,419 --> 00:10:20,389 latest eight we've got on the tenth of 225 00:10:24,189 --> 00:10:22,429 April next year in philadelphia PA 226 00:10:26,259 --> 00:10:24,199 through the living arts that's where 227 00:10:28,210 --> 00:10:26,269 they might be giants are playing but go 228 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:28,220 see them in australia go that go the 229 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:30,970 Aussies go straight out 230 00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:34,850 I'm eating veggie Mars as we speak can I 231 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:37,040 say that is what you're gonna cut that 232 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:50,749 and we see 233 00:10:55,319 --> 00:10:53,340 how much truth is there to claims of 234 00:10:57,689 --> 00:10:55,329 risk caused by the treatment of beef 235 00:10:59,519 --> 00:10:57,699 cattle with antibiotics I'm Tamra 236 00:11:05,460 --> 00:10:59,529 Robertson and you're hooked up to the 237 00:11:07,619 --> 00:11:05,470 feeding tube the feeding tube is the web 238 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:07,629 video series that brings you the real 239 00:11:13,199 --> 00:11:10,750 facts behind popular food myths food 240 00:11:15,569 --> 00:11:13,209 whoo is the most pervasive pop 241 00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:15,579 pseudoscience out there right now and it 242 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:18,040 desperately needs debunking each three 243 00:11:22,829 --> 00:11:20,050 minute episode is suitable for general 244 00:11:25,949 --> 00:11:22,839 audience and is produced by scientists 245 00:11:34,829 --> 00:11:25,959 for everyone the feeding tube check it 246 00:11:37,199 --> 00:11:34,839 out feeding tube TV welcome to a week in 247 00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:37,209 science from our oz bringing you the 248 00:11:41,189 --> 00:11:40,089 science you need to know flowers they 249 00:11:43,619 --> 00:11:41,199 make a great Mother's Day gift 250 00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:43,629 valentine's day gift or just any day of 251 00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:46,120 a year but why do we love giving them as 252 00:11:52,060 --> 00:11:48,100 much as we love getting them let's find 253 00:11:57,620 --> 00:11:54,440 flowers of the reproductive parts of a 254 00:11:59,390 --> 00:11:57,630 plant producing seeds or pollen many 255 00:12:02,240 --> 00:11:59,400 plants have evolved colorful blooms 256 00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:02,250 strong scents and produce nectar to 257 00:12:06,620 --> 00:12:04,200 attract pollinating animals as part of 258 00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:06,630 their reproductive cycle but for humans 259 00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:08,940 the pleasant aroma of flowers is more 260 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:10,470 than just a sweet smelling perfume 261 00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:13,200 hidden inside that smell our class of 262 00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:15,300 chemicals known as pro-law endopeptidase 263 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:18,630 inhibitors or PE eyes when you sniff 264 00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:20,730 flowers these PE eyes are absorbed into 265 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:22,350 your body an increased production of 266 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:24,930 hormones associated with love arousal 267 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:27,240 and memory and it just so happens that 268 00:12:33,610 --> 00:12:29,730 the most potent pers are found in roses 269 00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:33,620 the preferred flower of Valentine's Day 270 00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:36,300 but research has shown in addition to a 271 00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,860 chemical boost there are other good 272 00:12:41,810 --> 00:12:39,600 reasons for giving flowers as gifts 273 00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:41,820 humans have evolved to associate 274 00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:43,950 positive emotional responses at the size 275 00:12:47,630 --> 00:12:46,200 of flowers this response can 276 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:47,640 significantly lift the mood of the 277 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:49,140 recipient because of the strong 278 00:12:53,510 --> 00:12:51,330 connection between smell and memory and 279 00:12:55,579 --> 00:12:53,520 in related research scientists are 280 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:55,589 exploring evidence the chemicals found 281 00:13:00,170 --> 00:12:57,930 in a floral scent may also inhibit 282 00:13:01,730 --> 00:13:00,180 enzymes which cause Alzheimer's disease 283 00:13:03,890 --> 00:13:01,740 but if you need any further 284 00:13:05,780 --> 00:13:03,900 encouragement studies also show that 285 00:13:08,060 --> 00:13:05,790 those who give flowers are perceived as 286 00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:08,070 more successful caring and emotionally 287 00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:09,660 intelligent when compared to giving 288 00:13:14,180 --> 00:13:12,540 other similar gifts and now for fast 289 00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:14,190 facts about keeping your cut flowers 290 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:18,480 fresh when placing flowers and Avars 291 00:13:22,910 --> 00:13:20,850 always recut the stems with a slant 292 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:22,920 while immersed in water this will stop 293 00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:24,690 air entering the stem and prevent 294 00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,820 wilting adding the correct concentration 295 00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:28,920 of sugar bleach or vodka to the water 296 00:13:33,260 --> 00:13:30,839 keeps flowers fresh by preventing 297 00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:33,270 microbial growth place your flowers and 298 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:35,580 a cool airy spot and keep them away from 299 00:13:39,699 --> 00:13:38,040 the fruit bowl gas is produced by fruit 300 00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:39,709 will shortz on the flowers life and 301 00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:42,900 finally never give the carrion flower as 302 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:45,030 a gift apart from standing over three 303 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:46,890 meses and heights its aroma as a 304 00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:50,930 stomach-churning stench of rotting flesh 305 00:13:55,310 --> 00:13:53,880 that's it for this week in science for 306 00:14:00,319 --> 00:13:55,320 more on the science of giving flowers 307 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:00,329 goes the arrows website are I aus ok you 308 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:03,540 follow us on twitter at RI oz and like 309 00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:05,910 us on facebook i'm ben lewis and we'll 310 00:14:22,670 --> 00:14:20,160 catch you next week on to help support 311 00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:22,680 the skeptic zonin look pretty damn 312 00:14:30,259 --> 00:14:25,529 stylish while you're about it visit mr. 313 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:30,269 Katz origami jewelry WWE pegs on TV and 314 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:32,700 click the link or simply Google mr. Katz 315 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:36,050 origami jewelry also on Facebook 316 00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:39,930 pendants earrings and cufflinks support 317 00:15:09,990 --> 00:14:58,590 okay so welcome Maureen to the stage 318 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:10,000 please hi everyone so I had a bit of a 319 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:13,680 gift this week and I've given this talk 320 00:15:21,809 --> 00:15:17,170 twice before but now I finally have a 321 00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:21,819 conclusion so on Tuesday justice period 322 00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:24,839 from the federal court handed down 323 00:15:37,650 --> 00:15:28,240 115,000 dollar penalty to homeopathy + + 324 00:15:41,730 --> 00:15:37,660 + 23 thousand to Friendship felt now 325 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:41,740 this all started way back in 2009 with 326 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:44,649 ken harvey professor Ken homie got all 327 00:15:54,449 --> 00:15:50,250 of him he made a complaint to the TGA 328 00:15:56,749 --> 00:15:54,459 about friend Sheffield writing an 329 00:16:02,970 --> 00:15:56,759 article that said the patatas fact scene 330 00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:02,980 was short-lived and ineffective now the 331 00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:07,120 TGA asked friend to publish a retraction 332 00:16:14,490 --> 00:16:12,220 on her website because it breached their 333 00:16:17,069 --> 00:16:14,500 therapeutic goods advertising code so 334 00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:17,079 the retraction was supposed to be that 335 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:19,360 an advertisement for homeopathic 336 00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:22,689 protection homeo prophylaxis or homeo 337 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:25,839 prophylactic products which we published 338 00:16:29,939 --> 00:16:27,490 on this website should not have been 339 00:16:32,129 --> 00:16:29,949 published in the advertisement we 340 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:32,139 unlawfully made claims that the homeo 341 00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:35,230 prophylaxis products could prevent some 342 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:37,990 serious infectious diseases including 343 00:16:43,499 --> 00:16:41,110 meningococcal disease a complaint about 344 00:16:46,139 --> 00:16:43,509 the advertisement was recently upheld by 345 00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:46,149 the complaints resolution panel and the 346 00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:47,860 evidence we provided was wholly 347 00:16:52,350 --> 00:16:50,019 inadequate to support the claims we made 348 00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:52,360 the panel therefore found that the 349 00:16:58,170 --> 00:16:54,870 claims were unlawful misleading and 350 00:17:01,379 --> 00:16:58,180 unverified and breached cetera pretty 351 00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,389 goods advertising co the Therapeutic 352 00:17:06,659 --> 00:17:03,279 Goods Administration therefore ordered 353 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:06,669 that we publish this retraction except 354 00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:07,850 she didn't 355 00:17:13,659 --> 00:17:11,480 she refused to post the retraction she 356 00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:13,669 said she wasn't advertising but she was 357 00:17:20,199 --> 00:17:17,240 providing information and unfortunately 358 00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:20,209 the TG a bit of a toothless tiger and it 359 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:24,799 didn't go any further so Ken wouldn't 360 00:17:32,140 --> 00:17:28,210 give up so he took it to the a Triple C 361 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:32,150 because not only was at the same time as 362 00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:34,490 she was saying there patatas fact 363 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:36,590 singles of working she was also selling 364 00:17:46,649 --> 00:17:41,650 a product that she claimed was effective 365 00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:46,659 so in April 2012 the a Triple C 366 00:17:52,659 --> 00:17:49,809 investigated the homeopathy + website 367 00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,669 frame was ordered to remove the article 368 00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:55,039 about pertussis vaccination claiming it 369 00:18:01,690 --> 00:17:57,350 was short-lived and unreliable and no 370 00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:01,700 longer effective so she she couldn't see 371 00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:03,500 the problem with it but she complied and 372 00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:05,980 said she would have a think about it and 373 00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:09,289 then she posted a revised article in 374 00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,360 November of that year but it still 375 00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:14,799 contained all the offending claims so 376 00:18:20,590 --> 00:18:17,390 she changed it but she hadn't changed 377 00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:20,600 the the part that they wanted her to 378 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:26,390 change so then in February the a Triple 379 00:18:31,810 --> 00:18:29,330 C advised her that the content was 380 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:31,820 potentially deceptive and misleading am 381 00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:34,100 I in anyone's way I'm so short you can 382 00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,230 see I'm anywhere and they advised her 383 00:18:45,070 --> 00:18:41,600 that the matter could be resolved by 384 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,080 consent if homeopathy plus agreed to 385 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:47,360 particular orders by a Drupal see now I 386 00:18:52,289 --> 00:18:49,130 don't know exactly what those orders 387 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:52,299 were but i believe it was probably a 388 00:18:59,560 --> 00:18:56,090 retraction an injunction to remove the 389 00:19:02,590 --> 00:18:59,570 articles some sort of penalty and cost 390 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:02,600 to the a triple c well of course she 391 00:19:08,409 --> 00:19:05,650 refused to do that so two days later 392 00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:08,419 they served her with the summons to go 393 00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:12,559 to court so we got to the court day ok 394 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:15,140 ok so we had a four-day hearing in 395 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:17,450 between the eighteen to twenty fifth of 396 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:21,170 November 2013 397 00:19:26,650 --> 00:19:23,330 and I actually was going to hide these 398 00:19:29,980 --> 00:19:26,660 slides but these were the two council 399 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:29,990 miss Ruth Higgins for the a Triple C and 400 00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:34,690 Marcel white for homeopathy plus he also 401 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:39,470 unsuccessfully represented Meryl Dorian 402 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:43,700 her unsuccess unsuccessful appeal to the 403 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:46,580 name change he's got quite a pedigree 404 00:19:50,380 --> 00:19:48,290 but I'm not going to go into it he but 405 00:19:54,610 --> 00:19:50,390 if anyone wants to know about it I'm 406 00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:54,620 happy to talk later yeah so the expert 407 00:19:59,020 --> 00:19:56,750 witnesses for the a triple c in the 408 00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,030 court case with dr nigel william 409 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:01,360 Crawford who's the medical head of 410 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:03,530 immunization services at the Royal 411 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:04,970 Children's Hospital in Melbourne 412 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:09,530 Professor Kerin Phelps who's a GP she's 413 00:20:15,790 --> 00:20:13,510 firmly on the side of vaccination and I 414 00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:15,800 think she was probably called because 415 00:20:21,790 --> 00:20:18,830 she is also a former head of the AMA and 416 00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:21,800 dr. Nicholas woods who's a pediatrician 417 00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:24,380 at westmead Children's Hospital and also 418 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:26,350 works at the National Center for 419 00:20:31,390 --> 00:20:28,630 immunization research and surveillance 420 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:31,400 so they all gave their evidence and 421 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:35,740 apart from some clarifying questions 422 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:38,510 about their submissions their evidence 423 00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:44,030 went largely unchallenged now the expert 424 00:20:50,410 --> 00:20:46,940 witnesses for homeopathy plus were the 425 00:20:56,110 --> 00:20:50,420 aforementioned dr. isaac golden who has 426 00:20:57,910 --> 00:20:56,120 a PhD in homeopathy dr. mark Donahoe who 427 00:21:01,600 --> 00:20:57,920 is a GP and then well known 428 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:01,610 anti-vaccination dr. jürgen is short 429 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:04,370 it's a lecturer at the school of 430 00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:07,430 mathematical and physical sciences UTS 431 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:12,950 and Fred Sheffield herself now before 432 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:15,890 they actually gave evidence Isaac goal 433 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:18,410 and a triple c went through their 434 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:22,370 submissions and I think golden had much 435 00:21:28,510 --> 00:21:25,970 of his submission excluded as evidence 436 00:21:30,460 --> 00:21:28,520 because most of the references were to 437 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:30,470 his own publications 438 00:21:38,350 --> 00:21:34,870 and also on the basis of generality 439 00:21:43,930 --> 00:21:38,360 ambiguity and that it lacked foundation 440 00:21:47,529 --> 00:21:43,940 and mr. white Musselwhite for friend 441 00:21:49,450 --> 00:21:47,539 complained that dr. Golden's affidavit 442 00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:49,460 was subject to a far greater level of 443 00:21:55,870 --> 00:21:53,000 students scrutiny than any of the HR 444 00:21:58,510 --> 00:21:55,880 policies expert witnesses and judge and 445 00:22:02,080 --> 00:21:58,520 they Archie adjourned the judge perry 446 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:02,090 ruled on that and she said that dr. 447 00:22:07,330 --> 00:22:04,130 Golden's affidavit doesn't contain 448 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:07,340 evidence of effectiveness or homeopathy 449 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:10,250 of homeopathy there for his 450 00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:13,250 admissibility as an expert it's denied 451 00:22:18,820 --> 00:22:16,340 and all of the parts of dr. Goldman's 452 00:22:22,510 --> 00:22:18,830 affidavit objected to by the ap's a 453 00:22:25,419 --> 00:22:22,520 triple c were excluded and she also made 454 00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:25,429 a point of saying that the council can't 455 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:29,120 complain about excessive scrutiny of dr. 456 00:22:35,260 --> 00:22:31,850 Golden's affidavit when he had ample 457 00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:35,270 opportunity to do the same to the a 458 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:40,400 triple c witnesses so then dr. golden 459 00:22:48,610 --> 00:22:44,980 appeared via videolink and he was told 460 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:48,620 immediately by lovely Miss Higgins that 461 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:51,350 most of his testimony has been excluded 462 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:54,530 and that he would be restricted to his 463 00:22:59,020 --> 00:22:56,090 evidence would be restricted to just 464 00:23:03,520 --> 00:22:59,030 answering the questions that she 465 00:23:06,909 --> 00:23:03,530 presented to him she was a sweet sweet 466 00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:06,919 lady until you hear her cross-examining 467 00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:09,190 someone it was just it was just 468 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:12,169 astounding and he was very unhappy about 469 00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:18,590 it and there says and she actually 470 00:23:24,750 --> 00:23:21,860 accused two-month cherry picking and by 471 00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:24,760 omitting conclusions from his references 472 00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:29,870 that contradicted his evidence and so 473 00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:32,750 then he was only I think question for 474 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:35,270 about 10 minutes that was it whereas the 475 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:38,450 other other expert witnesses were you 476 00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,570 know for an hour or two now Judge Perry 477 00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:44,000 then asked on what basis 478 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:47,480 dr. donahoo was an expert witness given 479 00:23:56,530 --> 00:23:50,510 that part of his affidavit was a CV 480 00:23:59,980 --> 00:23:56,540 dated 2003 so most of his affidavit was 481 00:24:03,580 --> 00:23:59,990 also excluded as the evidence because it 482 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:03,590 consisted of more than 50 links with no 483 00:24:09,820 --> 00:24:05,600 context you know what we would call 484 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:09,830 geese gallop he was a met he was meant 485 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:13,490 to appear as a witness but mr. white 486 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:16,370 decided it was probably best if he 487 00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:18,170 didn't actually appear in the court 488 00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:22,580 after after he saw how she handled dr. 489 00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:29,840 golden and dr. schultz um evidence by 490 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:33,520 affidavit was completely excluded on the 491 00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:40,970 basis that it was irrelevant so we move 492 00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:47,480 on to over a year later and on the 493 00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,300 twenty-second of December 2014 I was in 494 00:24:56,290 --> 00:24:52,880 court with Richard Saunders Pete about 495 00:24:58,660 --> 00:24:56,300 it to me and Bryce and as as the judge 496 00:24:59,740 --> 00:24:58,670 was reading out the findings we weren't 497 00:25:03,070 --> 00:24:59,750 sure whether she was just actually 498 00:25:07,690 --> 00:25:03,080 reading out the charges because it was 499 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:07,700 the findings were that she was guilty of 500 00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:10,190 all of them so the court cleared that 501 00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:11,900 the first respondent and the second 502 00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:13,880 respondent so their first respondent is 503 00:25:18,460 --> 00:25:16,760 homeopathy plus the second is Fran 504 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:18,470 Sheffield having trade and commerce 505 00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:21,560 engaged in conduct that was misleading 506 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:24,200 and deceptive or was likely to mislead 507 00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:27,080 and deceive in country contravention of 508 00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:28,910 section 18 of the Australian Consumer 509 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:33,470 Law there is no reasonable basis in the 510 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:35,810 sense of an adequate foundation in 511 00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:37,910 medical science to enable the first 512 00:25:42,910 --> 00:25:40,340 respondent and the second respondent to 513 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:42,920 state that homeopathic treatments are 514 00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:45,470 safe and effective as an alternative to 515 00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:48,020 the vaccine for the prevention of 516 00:25:54,850 --> 00:25:51,110 whooping cough now some of the key 517 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:54,860 findings in that judgment were that the 518 00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,510 a Triple C expert witness 519 00:26:02,900 --> 00:25:59,520 as gave evidence that the vaccine is 520 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:02,910 effective in protecting against the 521 00:26:07,810 --> 00:26:05,670 contraction of pertussis there was no 522 00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:07,820 credible evidence put forward by 523 00:26:14,150 --> 00:26:11,070 homeopathy plus and much of the material 524 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:14,160 on which homeopathy plus relied wasn't 525 00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:17,990 credible some of her sources included 526 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:23,880 greg BTW and merrill dory and that homie 527 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:26,070 homeopathy plus were selectively in the 528 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:28,770 articles choosing earning those parts 529 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:31,710 that support her existing views or as we 530 00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:35,930 know it cherry picking now the head a 531 00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:38,820 it's not over yet they had a hearing in 532 00:26:48,170 --> 00:26:46,500 april this year and the a triple c asked 533 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,180 for sixty two and a half thousand 534 00:26:53,270 --> 00:26:51,120 dollars penalty against homeopathy + + 535 00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:53,280 12 and a half thousand for friend 536 00:26:58,730 --> 00:26:55,740 sheffield homeopathy plus claimed 537 00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:58,740 financial difficulty and said that a 538 00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:01,260 financial penalty would be financially 539 00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:04,350 ruinous for them and that she has ill 540 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:07,500 health now that the judge was really 541 00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:10,250 disdainful of the Financial claims 542 00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:12,630 because of the lack of evidence to 543 00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:17,880 support it being a court and all she 544 00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:19,980 actually said you haven't even produced 545 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:23,070 a bank statement and she made it very 546 00:27:30,290 --> 00:27:26,610 clear that she wanted to know about the 547 00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:30,300 income of homeopathy plus all that Fran 548 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:32,940 had put up was a statement of assets and 549 00:27:39,380 --> 00:27:35,250 liabilities there nothing about you know 550 00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:39,390 the everyday goings-on and she also 551 00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:41,880 commented that friend didn't seem to 552 00:27:48,620 --> 00:27:44,640 appreciate the seriousness of the 553 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:48,630 proceedings all the findings and she 554 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:52,410 based that I think on the poultry sort 555 00:27:56,510 --> 00:27:54,090 of evidence they provided for the 556 00:28:00,440 --> 00:27:56,520 financial situation and another 557 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:00,450 interesting thing was friends barristers 558 00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:02,970 said that they shouldn't be financial 559 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:04,560 they shouldn't be penalized at all 560 00:28:11,030 --> 00:28:07,490 because just a mum and dad corner shop 561 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:11,040 operation and the judge said to him 562 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:15,810 with 12,000 online subscribers now the 563 00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:17,850 maximum penalty for false or misleading 564 00:28:24,590 --> 00:28:21,150 blah blah blah blah blah is 1.1 million 565 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:24,600 for corporations okay and two hundred 566 00:28:31,490 --> 00:28:26,010 and twenty thousand dollars for 567 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:31,500 individuals now this slide I would 568 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:33,810 normally have left left out for this one 569 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:36,450 but after the penalties hearing the 570 00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:38,730 judge decided to give Fran and 571 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:41,790 homeopathy plus a bit more chance in a 572 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:45,090 bit more time and a chance to improve 573 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:47,370 their evidence so she said that the 574 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:50,010 applicant a triple c has leave to filed 575 00:28:56,750 --> 00:28:52,500 serve any supplementary submissions by 576 00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,760 the twenty-fifth of may and Fran had 577 00:29:00,800 --> 00:28:58,320 lived to file and serve any 578 00:29:04,130 --> 00:29:00,810 supplementary submissions by the fifth 579 00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:04,140 of June so she gave her a month and a 580 00:29:10,550 --> 00:29:06,660 half or so to submit something else so 581 00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:10,560 what did friend do nothing in her 582 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:17,100 judgment the judge stated that there is 583 00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:19,470 clearly income being owned by mr. 584 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:22,200 Sheffield and her company homeopathy 585 00:29:27,530 --> 00:29:24,930 plus which she has chosen not to 586 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:27,540 disclose she made mention of the fact 587 00:29:32,390 --> 00:29:30,090 that they had two full-time employees 588 00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:32,400 which her two adult children and two 589 00:29:37,550 --> 00:29:35,340 part-time employees as well as friend so 590 00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:37,560 there must be income so she's produced 591 00:29:43,310 --> 00:29:41,220 no evidence for that and she also said i 592 00:29:45,980 --> 00:29:43,320 can give little weight to the impact 593 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:45,990 that any pecuniary penalty might have on 594 00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:49,230 her financial situation given the 595 00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:51,360 failure by homeopathy plus to provide 596 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:54,500 any real disclosure of its financial 597 00:30:01,490 --> 00:29:57,690 circumstances so judgment day last 598 00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:01,500 tuesday that the headlines are that the 599 00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,510 thrill of finding articles are to be 600 00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:05,760 permanently removed from the homeopathy 601 00:30:14,050 --> 00:30:11,430 plus website and that homeopathy plus be 602 00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:14,060 restrained from promoting or supplying 603 00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:17,430 homeopathic homeopathic vaccines as an 604 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:19,380 alternative to pertussis vaccine for 605 00:30:33,370 --> 00:30:27,800 so she can't talk about it and she can't 606 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:33,380 sell it now the financial penalties so 607 00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:35,910 instead of the seventy five thousand 608 00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:38,960 dollars that the a Triple C was happy to 609 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:45,600 take the judge awarded of 115,000 old 610 00:30:51,890 --> 00:30:48,570 penalty to homeopathic homeopathy plus 611 00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,900 to be paid in thirteen thirty days and a 612 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:53,760 twenty-three thousand dollar penalty to 613 00:30:58,490 --> 00:30:56,010 Fred Sheffield to be paid in 90 days and 614 00:31:01,820 --> 00:30:58,500 the costs were awarded to the a Triple C 615 00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:01,830 and that this is all because she refused 616 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:06,120 to disclose her financial income so 617 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:09,210 anyway she hasn't I had a look on her 618 00:31:14,410 --> 00:31:11,430 website yesterday so she's taken all 619 00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:14,420 references to her neyo prophylaxis off 620 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:21,140 her website except for animals ok now 621 00:31:28,610 --> 00:31:24,510 much was made of friends ill health at 622 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:28,620 the penalties hearing and I you know a 623 00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:30,330 lot of people have joked about that 624 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:33,180 because she reckons homie homeopathy can 625 00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:35,010 cure so many things these are the things 626 00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:37,950 that friend has claims can be cured by 627 00:31:46,460 --> 00:31:43,080 homeopathy HIV Ebola cholera typhoid 628 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:46,470 malaria pertussis radiation sickness 629 00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:50,690 irritable bowel syndrome manging dogs 630 00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:53,100 middle ear infection osteomyelitis 631 00:32:00,020 --> 00:31:56,700 urinary tract infections sinusitis lipo 632 00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:00,030 marine birds autism and fractures so I 633 00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:04,260 guess all that leaves is cancer oh and 634 00:32:12,190 --> 00:32:06,350 the latest one she's got on there is it 635 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:15,279 well we are we know most most most 636 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:18,289 hangovers caused by dehydration now the 637 00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:20,809 question is what's going to happen now 638 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,580 because I don't think she's going to pay 639 00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:26,960 well we got to move on now guys to the 640 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:28,220 next one so thank you very much too 641 00:32:49,930 --> 00:32:47,690 Maureen again i thinkI are you tired of 642 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:49,940 waiting for the end of the world is the 643 00:32:54,460 --> 00:32:52,850 grain nano gue coming for you or are you 644 00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:54,470 just annoyed by those hordes of undead 645 00:32:59,919 --> 00:32:57,440 or the color of the moon or even swarms 646 00:33:03,009 --> 00:32:59,929 of a sort of biblical insects could that 647 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:03,019 silly movie 2012 actually have any basis 648 00:33:08,259 --> 00:33:05,570 of reality or will the machine to rule 649 00:33:09,970 --> 00:33:08,269 us all for these questions are fun 650 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:09,980 weekend down more come to the New 651 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:12,529 Zealand skeptics society 2015 annual 652 00:33:17,710 --> 00:33:15,440 conference Christchurch 20th 222nd 653 00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:17,720 November evidence shows that we even 654 00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,460 have a real scientist speaking on 655 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:21,440 fantastic topics when the echoing 656 00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:23,210 hoofbeats of the four gender neutral 657 00:33:27,389 --> 00:33:25,070 equations of the apocalypse ring out 658 00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:27,399 across the world where will you be 659 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:30,860 christchurch new zealand 22 22nd 660 00:33:36,669 --> 00:33:34,490 november apocalypse how after all with a 661 00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:36,679 go-to place for natural disasters for 662 00:33:40,899 --> 00:33:38,360 further details visit conference 663 00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:40,909 skeptics dot nzd these in the skeptics 664 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:42,169 society is a charitable organization 665 00:33:57,370 --> 00:33:44,090 that exists to promote critical thinking 666 00:33:59,080 --> 00:33:57,380 the devil is not real look I'm with 667 00:34:01,419 --> 00:33:59,090 someone now that I want to interview for 668 00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:01,429 a long time Joe Nickell how are you I'm 669 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:03,380 good thanks yeah well what do you think 670 00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,510 of the people who think that some of 671 00:34:09,790 --> 00:34:07,279 these mass shootings never happened I 672 00:34:11,409 --> 00:34:09,800 find that a little bit unusual I can 673 00:34:15,399 --> 00:34:11,419 understand people having anomalies 674 00:34:17,379 --> 00:34:15,409 because when I saw the the the coroner 675 00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:17,389 at the Sandy Hook shooting he was 676 00:34:21,069 --> 00:34:19,250 certainly acting very strange for a 677 00:34:22,659 --> 00:34:21,079 professional but then again I've never 678 00:34:24,050 --> 00:34:22,669 had to do a mass autopsy on a bunch of 679 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:24,060 children so I 680 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:25,290 no I don't know what it becomes whose 681 00:34:30,350 --> 00:34:28,050 head you know well exactly and after all 682 00:34:31,850 --> 00:34:30,360 real detectives and coroner's and so 683 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:31,860 where the human beings and some of them 684 00:34:36,140 --> 00:34:34,410 are odd have odd personalities and so 685 00:34:39,230 --> 00:34:36,150 forth and they may look a little odd and 686 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:39,240 and they're odd fluky circumstances I've 687 00:34:43,850 --> 00:34:41,130 worked real homicide cases with police 688 00:34:45,860 --> 00:34:43,860 and odd things happen well it's will 689 00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:45,870 sometimes do a funny thing when and you 690 00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:48,600 know that they did but but if you were 691 00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:50,160 try it there was somebody wanted to make 692 00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:52,020 a conspiracy out of it you'd think well 693 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:54,030 it does seem like a nun very rare 694 00:34:57,980 --> 00:34:56,010 unusual thing for a bullet to do it's a 695 00:35:00,860 --> 00:34:57,990 whole surreal air that surrounds an 696 00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:00,870 investigation of a murder or is it more 697 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:02,430 like a matter of fact go through a 698 00:35:09,740 --> 00:35:05,970 flowchart kind of depends on whether the 699 00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:09,750 murder is is again not to use the word 700 00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:12,960 prosaic but whether it's just another 701 00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:17,400 murder and you can without a lot of 702 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:19,830 spotlights being shined on you without a 703 00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:21,990 lot of crazy people coming at you 704 00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:24,600 without a lot of tabloids wanting the 705 00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:28,140 story no matter how fake it is you can 706 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:30,180 pretty much go at it in a routine and 707 00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:32,910 professional way but once you have a 708 00:35:37,570 --> 00:35:35,550 high-profile case once you have the 709 00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:37,580 president nine states has been shot or 710 00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:40,680 terrorists have driven flown planes 711 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:43,740 right into the the Trade Center 712 00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:49,770 buildings somehow these these conspiracy 713 00:35:59,330 --> 00:35:53,820 theorists come out of the woodwork it's 714 00:36:03,110 --> 00:35:59,340 scary they appear to have some sort of 715 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,120 aberrant thinking process because the 716 00:36:08,780 --> 00:36:05,520 kind of evidence that you and I would 717 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:08,790 regard is pretty much we saw that and 718 00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,050 it's pretty clear and pretty 719 00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:12,240 straightforward and what they're trying 720 00:36:20,210 --> 00:36:16,380 to sell you is from The Wizard of Oz you 721 00:36:23,210 --> 00:36:20,220 know devil version you just you just 722 00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:23,220 have to marvel at how they think and how 723 00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:26,880 they they seem to start with an answer 724 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:29,670 that they want that this is some kind of 725 00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:32,130 vast conspiracy and engage in what's 726 00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:34,060 called confirmation bias 727 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:35,950 the same way sort of the Shroud of Turin 728 00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:38,530 do but of course they're they're greatly 729 00:36:43,950 --> 00:36:40,960 sensible in comparison to the conspiracy 730 00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,960 theorists but the Shroud people will say 731 00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:45,520 you know this is the Shroud of our Lord 732 00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:47,920 and you can just look at it and see what 733 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:50,560 a marble it is well okay but then you 734 00:36:54,930 --> 00:36:52,690 know I come in and I say well you know 735 00:36:57,450 --> 00:36:54,940 this shows that the body of Jesus was 736 00:36:59,040 --> 00:36:57,460 wrapped with a cloth under and over the 737 00:37:01,140 --> 00:36:59,050 top of the hidden lying across the front 738 00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:01,150 and let me tell you the Jewish mission 739 00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:02,830 who makes clear that's not how jews were 740 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:05,260 at their body the Gospel of John says 741 00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:06,970 specifically it was the manner of the 742 00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:09,760 Jews and he describes multiple Claus the 743 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:12,390 separate face cloth and so forth so they 744 00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:14,890 rationalize that yes but the Gospels 745 00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:16,630 could be you know wrong or there could 746 00:37:20,250 --> 00:37:18,520 have been special services anything 747 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:20,260 welders there's no history for the 748 00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:22,930 shroud for 1300 e where was it well we 749 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:24,280 believe it might have been hidden away 750 00:37:28,590 --> 00:37:26,170 in blah blah blah a lot of pseudo 751 00:37:31,980 --> 00:37:28,600 history that would make even von Daniken 752 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:31,990 a skeptic and then you know that well 753 00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:33,970 what about the forgers confession oh we 754 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:35,830 think that was trumped up that Bishop 755 00:37:40,290 --> 00:37:38,530 was jealous well he was a bishop and he 756 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:40,300 wrote to the Pope and he seemed to know 757 00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:42,610 where of he spoke and he said there were 758 00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:43,960 lots of other people who can confirm 759 00:37:49,710 --> 00:37:46,960 what he said at the time and do really 760 00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:49,720 and then you think well okay and then 761 00:37:54,750 --> 00:37:52,360 the McCrone laboratory found tempera 762 00:37:56,580 --> 00:37:54,760 paint all over the shroud oh yeah well 763 00:37:58,590 --> 00:37:56,590 we think that that could have been added 764 00:38:01,470 --> 00:37:58,600 on later somebody was touching it up and 765 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:01,480 so forth and then finally the carbon 766 00:38:05,250 --> 00:38:03,400 dating which carbon dates to the time of 767 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:05,260 the forgers confession and they think 768 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:08,410 well maybe Christ's resurrection you 769 00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:10,210 know the burst of radiant energy at the 770 00:38:15,980 --> 00:38:12,190 moment of resurrection altered the 771 00:38:18,930 --> 00:38:15,990 carbon dating or maybe the fire of 1532 772 00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:18,940 cement altered the carbon with and so 773 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:20,200 forth he said well you don't know much 774 00:38:25,350 --> 00:38:21,730 about carbon dating because those things 775 00:38:26,970 --> 00:38:25,360 are well you know the process of you 776 00:38:30,030 --> 00:38:26,980 know purifies the sample so those 777 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:30,040 wouldn't be contaminants but it's you 778 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:32,410 can see that they have started with an 779 00:38:36,589 --> 00:38:34,930 answer and no matter what you find or 780 00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:36,599 say 781 00:38:42,509 --> 00:38:40,480 the they have some rationalization but 782 00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:42,519 notice that their rationalizations have 783 00:38:46,319 --> 00:38:44,140 nothing to do with each other each 784 00:38:48,989 --> 00:38:46,329 rationalization is a special one to 785 00:38:50,460 --> 00:38:48,999 defend a particular point then turn that 786 00:38:53,759 --> 00:38:50,470 around and look at what the skeptics 787 00:38:55,710 --> 00:38:53,769 position is well it doesn't match Jewish 788 00:38:57,390 --> 00:38:55,720 borough practices because it was made in 789 00:39:01,170 --> 00:38:57,400 the middle of the 14th century in Europe 790 00:39:02,789 --> 00:39:01,180 it's it looks too good to be true and 791 00:39:05,729 --> 00:39:02,799 looks to picture like because an artist 792 00:39:07,319 --> 00:39:05,739 made it an artist confessed we have a 793 00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:07,329 Bishop's report that the artists 794 00:39:11,789 --> 00:39:09,940 confessed the blood is still bright red 795 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:11,799 because it's tempera paint we found 796 00:39:16,019 --> 00:39:14,529 tempera paint the radiocarbon dating 797 00:39:18,059 --> 00:39:16,029 dates it to the time of the forgers 798 00:39:21,380 --> 00:39:18,069 confession I could go on and on so you 799 00:39:23,549 --> 00:39:21,390 see that that what the skeptic has is 800 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:23,559 interlocked I'm locking my fingers 801 00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:25,690 together here to show how this works but 802 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:28,569 the evidence is interlocking and solid 803 00:39:33,870 --> 00:39:32,049 and corroborated as opposed to they they 804 00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:33,880 start with the belief in their heart and 805 00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:36,910 they look for a excuse or a 806 00:39:40,739 --> 00:39:38,980 rationalization for every point that's 807 00:39:42,569 --> 00:39:40,749 made they don't have they don't have any 808 00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:42,579 corroborating evidence or any solid 809 00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:45,609 evidence they have maybe this could be 810 00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:49,630 that we think this and a lot of of even 811 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:51,369 that is pseudoscience and they've been 812 00:39:56,009 --> 00:39:53,410 caught at some of this and even the 813 00:40:00,299 --> 00:39:56,019 church itself has just claimed now some 814 00:40:02,279 --> 00:40:00,309 of the more recent excesses with some of 815 00:40:05,130 --> 00:40:02,289 the claims has been made the church's 816 00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,140 people think the shroud is that the 817 00:40:08,999 --> 00:40:07,359 Catholic Church is trying to you know 818 00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:09,009 put out something well actually it was 819 00:40:15,329 --> 00:40:11,849 that it was the Archbishop of Turin and 820 00:40:17,729 --> 00:40:15,339 his crowd that had the shroud and we're 821 00:40:21,809 --> 00:40:17,739 trying to promote it when the Vatican 822 00:40:25,279 --> 00:40:21,819 got control of the shroud after King 823 00:40:29,220 --> 00:40:25,289 Umberto the exiled king of Italy died 824 00:40:31,049 --> 00:40:29,230 and he technically owned the shroud the 825 00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:31,059 archbishop kind of had a little game 826 00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:33,670 that they played about about this but 827 00:40:38,819 --> 00:40:36,609 once Umberto died and bequeathed it to 828 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:38,829 the Vatican look what happened the 829 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:41,950 Vatican came forward with very good 830 00:40:46,859 --> 00:40:44,410 tests very well they didn't just pick 831 00:40:48,339 --> 00:40:46,869 shroud loyalists to do the test they got 832 00:40:50,499 --> 00:40:48,349 real scientists from the 833 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:50,509 big laboratories and put it in there and 834 00:40:55,509 --> 00:40:52,910 put it in the British Museum's hands to 835 00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,519 authenticate and and to coordinate this 836 00:40:59,920 --> 00:40:57,920 perfect what's what's the objection to 837 00:41:02,319 --> 00:40:59,930 that and the results were devastating it 838 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:02,329 appeared to be fake and and the Vatican 839 00:41:06,489 --> 00:41:04,249 has accepted that as far as anyone knew 840 00:41:08,410 --> 00:41:06,499 they'd never said we disagree or this is 841 00:41:13,539 --> 00:41:08,420 a travesty Renault they just accepted 842 00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,549 and look at the new pope francis who yes 843 00:41:18,670 --> 00:41:15,680 i disagree with him on some things but 844 00:41:20,019 --> 00:41:18,680 he's he's done some very good things and 845 00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:20,029 said some very good things look what he 846 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:22,460 said about the Shroud of Turin he said 847 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:24,650 he referred to it as kind of you know 848 00:41:32,650 --> 00:41:27,430 wonderful or whatever adjective he used 849 00:41:36,359 --> 00:41:32,660 icon I'll wait a minute because if it's 850 00:41:38,589 --> 00:41:36,369 an icon that means it's a work of art 851 00:41:40,089 --> 00:41:38,599 shouldn't he if he believed the shroud 852 00:41:42,370 --> 00:41:40,099 was genuine he should have called it a 853 00:41:46,749 --> 00:41:42,380 relic and I'll leave you with this 854 00:41:49,299 --> 00:41:46,759 question that does the Pope know the 855 00:41:51,069 --> 00:41:49,309 difference between a relic and an icon 856 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:51,079 and let me answer that question with 857 00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:54,249 another question is the Pope Catholic 858 00:41:59,410 --> 00:41:57,440 they're all about icons he knows exactly 859 00:42:03,099 --> 00:41:59,420 the difference between a relic and an 860 00:42:05,650 --> 00:42:03,109 icon be a world expert on this a 861 00:42:07,059 --> 00:42:05,660 question that we can't attribute this 862 00:42:08,829 --> 00:42:07,069 quote to you but I mentioned it to the 863 00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,839 other night is before you investigate an 864 00:42:14,259 --> 00:42:11,180 unusual event make sure the unusual 865 00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:14,269 event actually happened yes that's an 866 00:42:19,539 --> 00:42:16,910 excellent rule and and all of us who 867 00:42:23,279 --> 00:42:19,549 have done much investigation Lauren the 868 00:42:25,299 --> 00:42:23,289 truth of that pretty soon either either 869 00:42:27,969 --> 00:42:25,309 fortunately before we make a big mistake 870 00:42:32,019 --> 00:42:27,979 or we make a mistake the I yes there's 871 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:32,029 the rule the Canadian psychologist James 872 00:42:38,859 --> 00:42:35,450 alcock named that principle after ray 873 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:38,869 hyman who I don't know if Ray originated 874 00:42:43,989 --> 00:42:41,690 it it's but he may have and and he 875 00:42:47,529 --> 00:42:43,999 refers to it as hymens categorical 876 00:42:49,930 --> 00:42:47,539 imperative and and that is as you said 877 00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,940 before you try to explain something make 878 00:42:53,950 --> 00:42:51,680 sure it really happened and then there's 879 00:42:56,709 --> 00:42:53,960 some corollaries to that sort of make 880 00:42:59,469 --> 00:42:56,719 sure it really happened in this 881 00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:59,479 particular way that's being said maybe 882 00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:00,400 it happened maybe 883 00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:02,470 was an incident but maybe happened a 884 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:05,230 little differently or have you checked 885 00:43:08,970 --> 00:43:07,570 out all the details and so forth I mean 886 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:08,980 there are some corollaries that you 887 00:43:14,430 --> 00:43:11,530 could put into that but it's but it's a 888 00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:14,440 wonderful principle because we see all 889 00:43:21,210 --> 00:43:18,040 the time and I could give you cases of 890 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:21,220 mine where like the case of the 891 00:43:25,650 --> 00:43:24,130 disappearance of Oliver lurch and also 892 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:25,660 known as Oliver larch and there are 893 00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:28,170 different versions of the story but he 894 00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:30,670 disappeared walking in the snow one 895 00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,320 night to go to the well to get some 896 00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,720 water and so forth in the family heard 897 00:43:38,940 --> 00:43:36,880 him and they crying for help and they 898 00:43:41,580 --> 00:43:38,950 rush outside they find his footsteps 899 00:43:44,490 --> 00:43:41,590 going halfway to the well in the snow 900 00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:44,500 and Oliver was never seen again and 901 00:43:50,370 --> 00:43:46,900 there was justice footsteps ended in the 902 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:50,380 snow and so forth well I've seen people 903 00:43:54,660 --> 00:43:52,450 try to explain how that I tried to 904 00:43:56,430 --> 00:43:54,670 explain how well maybe he caught up on 905 00:43:58,590 --> 00:43:56,440 the fence and was walking on the fence 906 00:44:02,250 --> 00:43:58,600 and then he slipped off fell in the well 907 00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,260 and and we never saw him again but at 908 00:44:07,410 --> 00:44:04,240 the same time I was doing that I was 909 00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:07,420 following the categorical imperative and 910 00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:11,440 I had hired a researcher in the area of 911 00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:15,430 South Bend Indiana to research that that 912 00:44:20,340 --> 00:44:17,110 family there was no such family ever 913 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:20,350 existed no such fun no such person ever 914 00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:24,250 or even the family name turns out then 915 00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:26,830 that story was plagiarized from an 916 00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:31,270 Ambrose Bierce short story so but but 917 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:34,270 what I did was to try both let's assume 918 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:36,910 it did happen could we possibly explain 919 00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:38,890 it and I came up with a okay a little 920 00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:40,750 bit of a far-fetched explanation but 921 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:45,040 possible and at the same time let's see 922 00:44:52,350 --> 00:44:47,650 if it happened and I'm working both 923 00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:52,360 together as I often do and now what do 924 00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:53,620 you want to take a crack at is there a 925 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:55,030 paranormal mystery or something that's 926 00:44:58,050 --> 00:44:56,650 come up recently all you've always 927 00:45:01,800 --> 00:44:58,060 wanted to get to the haven't been able 928 00:45:04,050 --> 00:45:01,810 to I don't Telegraph that to the world 929 00:45:06,570 --> 00:45:04,060 I've had some unfortunate experiences 930 00:45:08,430 --> 00:45:06,580 actually because I'm you know kind of 931 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:08,440 the guy that you want to if you're 932 00:45:11,370 --> 00:45:09,250 trying to out 933 00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:11,380 I'll make a name for yourself you might 934 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:14,860 want to step on my shoulders and leave 935 00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:19,510 me in the mud as you leap up so I've had 936 00:45:25,290 --> 00:45:22,270 I've had unfortunate situations where I 937 00:45:27,930 --> 00:45:25,300 talked to some students and they they 938 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:27,940 went and told the people not not meaning 939 00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:31,090 maliciousness just just just told people 940 00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:32,710 I was working on this and what my 941 00:45:37,710 --> 00:45:34,180 theories were and all that was not 942 00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:37,720 helpful well we've had some great mass 943 00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:39,310 UFO sightings here in Australia in 944 00:45:41,730 --> 00:45:40,750 Melbourne in the 60s and that sort of 945 00:45:43,650 --> 00:45:41,740 thing how do you go and you have 946 00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:43,660 multiple eyewitnesses of something 947 00:45:50,460 --> 00:45:45,750 unusual how do you how do you pass that 948 00:45:52,650 --> 00:45:50,470 well people people may very well see the 949 00:45:56,490 --> 00:45:52,660 same thing and to go back to my 950 00:46:00,900 --> 00:45:56,500 flatwoods monster case where we're some 951 00:46:04,410 --> 00:46:00,910 you know some kids on a ball field saw a 952 00:46:06,510 --> 00:46:04,420 flying saucer and they was getting dark 953 00:46:08,310 --> 00:46:06,520 and they ran up into the woods and and 954 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:08,320 pretty soon they saw a monster that now 955 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:11,530 appears to have been a bar now well what 956 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:14,710 about the UFO multiple witnesses right 957 00:46:19,530 --> 00:46:17,650 yeah okay and let's not dismiss it 958 00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,540 because it was little boys they were 959 00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:21,040 they were old enough to know they saw 960 00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:22,900 something and they taste they did see 961 00:46:29,700 --> 00:46:26,520 something but we know what they saw now 962 00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:29,710 they saw a meteor how do we know because 963 00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:31,780 it was reported over three states and we 964 00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:35,950 had astronomers suicide so in the end of 965 00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:39,670 discussion on that so yes people can see 966 00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:42,910 something they can all think oh that's a 967 00:46:47,070 --> 00:46:44,110 mysterious thing I've never seen 968 00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:47,080 anything like it because none of them 969 00:46:53,630 --> 00:46:50,620 are experts in meteors people can see 970 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:53,640 even an ordinary airplane under unusual 971 00:46:58,650 --> 00:46:55,810 atmospheric conditions and it can look 972 00:47:01,770 --> 00:46:58,660 quite mysterious and they may see an 973 00:47:05,490 --> 00:47:01,780 upper atmospheric research balloon or a 974 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:05,500 space debris or a hoax balloon with 975 00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:07,810 candles I've investigated so many 976 00:47:12,450 --> 00:47:10,000 different kinds of phenomenon like that 977 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:12,460 so what it means when you have multiple 978 00:47:18,090 --> 00:47:15,730 witnesses is yes they're probably with 979 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:18,100 something in the sky yes yes then the 980 00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:24,370 visible if one person is mistaken why 981 00:47:29,770 --> 00:47:26,750 wouldn't the next one be mistaken or any 982 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:29,780 of them experts in the aerial phenomena 983 00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:33,290 know that never almost never are the 984 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:34,820 people who see these things are just 985 00:47:38,590 --> 00:47:36,650 ordinary folk and they don't know what 986 00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,600 they saw can I ask you about the hell 987 00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:40,400 what your point is on the Travis Walton 988 00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:42,230 k so I've actually met him and it seems 989 00:47:48,130 --> 00:47:43,670 like he seemed to experience something 990 00:47:52,450 --> 00:47:48,140 to me how do you feel about that I think 991 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:52,460 most of the alien abductees have had 992 00:47:58,510 --> 00:47:56,210 experiences in which quite a number of 993 00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:58,520 them are fantasy prone personalities and 994 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:01,520 this this comes out if you looked at dr. 995 00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:05,930 max book John max book abduction and he 996 00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:08,990 isn't he has 13 abductees a chapter on 997 00:48:12,940 --> 00:48:11,300 each and you read that very soon you 998 00:48:15,310 --> 00:48:12,950 realize these are not average people 999 00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:15,320 they're not you me your friends these 1000 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:18,080 are different people and their unusual 1001 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:23,290 people they have a highly developed 1002 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:28,970 ability to imagine things they are have 1003 00:48:33,460 --> 00:48:31,490 vivid dreams all of them are easily 1004 00:48:35,740 --> 00:48:33,470 hypnotized by definition because that's 1005 00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:35,750 how Mac judged them you see so right 1006 00:48:42,310 --> 00:48:37,670 away these are these are different 1007 00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,320 people and so I showed that that there 1008 00:48:45,490 --> 00:48:43,760 are a number of markers for what 1009 00:48:47,710 --> 00:48:45,500 psychologists call fantasy prone 1010 00:48:49,540 --> 00:48:47,720 personality and you can go through with 1011 00:48:51,730 --> 00:48:49,550 the checklist and you can read his book 1012 00:48:53,140 --> 00:48:51,740 and just show that they're you know 1013 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:53,150 they're sincere and all that and they're 1014 00:48:55,570 --> 00:48:54,650 saying and normal there's nothing wrong 1015 00:48:58,450 --> 00:48:55,580 with him but they're what's called 1016 00:49:00,370 --> 00:48:58,460 fantasy prone to high propensity to to 1017 00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:00,380 imagine and to believe what they 1018 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:03,260 imagined Travis Walton appears to be of 1019 00:49:09,250 --> 00:49:05,570 a different sort and Travis changed his 1020 00:49:10,660 --> 00:49:09,260 story and Travis told his mother if if 1021 00:49:12,220 --> 00:49:10,670 you don't hear from me for a while don't 1022 00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:12,230 worry about me and so are there are all 1023 00:49:19,330 --> 00:49:15,980 kinds of tips class in one of his books 1024 00:49:21,250 --> 00:49:19,340 dealt at length with the Travis Walton 1025 00:49:25,330 --> 00:49:21,260 case and concluded it was probably a 1026 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:25,340 hoax at Travis his friends may not have 1027 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:26,810 been in on it with him they may have 1028 00:49:31,570 --> 00:49:29,210 been he may have thought I can fool them 1029 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:31,580 I'll go off to you wait here and they 1030 00:49:35,630 --> 00:49:33,690 saw some bright lights that he here 1031 00:49:39,050 --> 00:49:35,640 changed some kind of display or 1032 00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:39,060 something the least likely explanation 1033 00:49:44,060 --> 00:49:41,730 the least likely explanation is that 1034 00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:44,070 this was an extraterrestrial event of 1035 00:49:51,140 --> 00:49:48,180 any kind much more likely is that Travis 1036 00:49:54,460 --> 00:49:51,150 Walton who's a bit of a character bit of 1037 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:54,470 a showman bit of a as he shown himself 1038 00:50:00,140 --> 00:49:56,850 subsequently a guy looking for attention 1039 00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:00,150 and and milked this and made almost a 1040 00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:02,880 little career of this tale and got a 1041 00:50:08,270 --> 00:50:05,790 movie made and so forth okay as a 1042 00:50:09,980 --> 00:50:08,280 regular detective when unusual cases 1043 00:50:11,570 --> 00:50:09,990 like this come to the regular police 1044 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:11,580 department how they treated because 1045 00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:14,130 you've got murders and investigations 1046 00:50:17,090 --> 00:50:15,270 going on all the time and suddenly 1047 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:17,100 something outside the experience comes 1048 00:50:21,410 --> 00:50:18,450 in out of the police department normally 1049 00:50:24,910 --> 00:50:21,420 handle that police departments are not 1050 00:50:28,670 --> 00:50:24,920 well equipped they have no better 1051 00:50:33,290 --> 00:50:28,680 knowledge or ability to investigate a 1052 00:50:35,540 --> 00:50:33,300 UFO than anybody they have no notion 1053 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:35,550 what to do in a poltergeist case where 1054 00:50:40,070 --> 00:50:37,890 objects are thrown around a policeman 1055 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:40,080 going in and and pretty soon he's saying 1056 00:50:45,050 --> 00:50:42,330 I saw that object leap off the shelf and 1057 00:50:46,970 --> 00:50:45,060 whatever he didn't but but he's not 1058 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:46,980 people think of policeman's a trained 1059 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:50,130 observer well he's an ordinary guy he's 1060 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:52,890 just an ordinary guy with a gun and and 1061 00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:57,690 okay he's got some sense and maybe a 1062 00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:01,440 very wonderful person as police at their 1063 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:05,400 best are but they're not trained in any 1064 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:07,650 way in any of these paranormal cases and 1065 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:09,210 they may in fact be just as 1066 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:14,490 superstitious as or more so than the 1067 00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:16,890 average public and I've seen I've seen 1068 00:51:28,850 --> 00:51:23,150 the police commanders who were from a 1069 00:51:30,650 --> 00:51:28,860 kind of fringe religious sense and 1070 00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:30,660 believed in the devil and so forth and 1071 00:51:35,540 --> 00:51:33,180 you think well okay so is that guy a 1072 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:35,550 solid policeman or is he a bit of a 1073 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:37,890 wacko well he's he's okay as a solid 1074 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:40,410 policeman when somebody pulls a gun or 1075 00:51:46,109 --> 00:51:42,770 something maybe a great brave man 1076 00:51:48,599 --> 00:51:46,119 somebody pulls a prank that looks like 1077 00:51:50,989 --> 00:51:48,609 devil work and he's caught right up in 1078 00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:50,999 it I mean we see this all the time 1079 00:51:58,859 --> 00:51:55,680 scientists as well aren't trained to to 1080 00:52:01,140 --> 00:51:58,869 examine trickery scientists if you think 1081 00:52:03,630 --> 00:52:01,150 about it depend on a world in which 1082 00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:03,640 everybody's being honest and so in 1083 00:52:09,210 --> 00:52:06,640 science you found something here's a 1084 00:52:11,579 --> 00:52:09,220 specimen you didn't fake it so now I can 1085 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:11,589 test your specimen and so forth but it 1086 00:52:16,739 --> 00:52:13,690 but if somebody's of crook or somebody's 1087 00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:16,749 a deceiver the scientist is completely 1088 00:52:23,249 --> 00:52:20,230 bewildered because he's had no way to 1089 00:52:25,289 --> 00:52:23,259 protect for that so that's kind of why 1090 00:52:27,630 --> 00:52:25,299 our organization committee for skeptical 1091 00:52:29,789 --> 00:52:27,640 inquiry and skeptical Inquirer magazine 1092 00:52:31,620 --> 00:52:29,799 and of course Brisbane skeptics 1093 00:52:34,049 --> 00:52:31,630 Australian skeptics and all the great 1094 00:52:39,029 --> 00:52:34,059 skeptics groups around the world what we 1095 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:39,039 do is we try to become informed use 1096 00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:41,410 expertise because some of us will be 1097 00:52:45,299 --> 00:52:43,359 detective some will be forensic people 1098 00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:45,309 some will be physicist some medical 1099 00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:47,710 doctors and so forth so we can draw on 1100 00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:51,609 if I'm not a doctor I know one and we're 1101 00:52:58,799 --> 00:52:55,480 all pretty much trained to use certain 1102 00:53:02,299 --> 00:52:58,809 basic principles that like burden of 1103 00:53:07,019 --> 00:53:02,309 proof and Occam's razor and and so forth 1104 00:53:09,359 --> 00:53:07,029 so we function I think as a public 1105 00:53:12,059 --> 00:53:09,369 service the scientists don't want to 1106 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:12,069 fool with what they regard as nonsense 1107 00:53:18,180 --> 00:53:15,730 Bigfoot and so forth well no we're happy 1108 00:53:21,499 --> 00:53:18,190 to look at that area because somebody 1109 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:21,509 needs to and the scientist shouldn't be 1110 00:53:27,839 --> 00:53:25,930 deterred and bothered by silliness we 1111 00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:27,849 are willing to look at these fringe 1112 00:53:34,049 --> 00:53:31,599 claims and can bring 1113 00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:34,059 that when we're at our best and that 1114 00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:36,460 means we're not dismissive and debunkers 1115 00:53:45,299 --> 00:53:40,329 and sober when we're at our best we can 1116 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:45,309 often clarify these cases and catch hoax 1117 00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:47,890 I've caught many many tricksters caught 1118 00:53:54,299 --> 00:53:52,180 them red-handed we can often maybe not 1119 00:53:56,729 --> 00:53:54,309 absolutely prove something but we can 1120 00:53:59,609 --> 00:53:56,739 infer something from the evidence as we 1121 00:54:01,890 --> 00:53:59,619 can infer that say the Nazca lines are 1122 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:01,900 ritual walking paths now have very good 1123 00:54:07,019 --> 00:54:05,170 information to infer that we don't have 1124 00:54:10,049 --> 00:54:07,029 to depend on police so I think what 1125 00:54:13,769 --> 00:54:10,059 police I would advise police you know 1126 00:54:15,989 --> 00:54:13,779 too okay maybe show up the first time 1127 00:54:19,979 --> 00:54:15,999 when some disturbance but once they find 1128 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:19,989 it's a little bit paranormal issue or 1129 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:23,170 supernatural ish or whatever refer the 1130 00:54:28,769 --> 00:54:26,650 people to psychologist or or get to know 1131 00:54:31,410 --> 00:54:28,779 their their local skeptics refer the 1132 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:31,420 case to them ask for their help and 1133 00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:35,650 whenever that's been done I think things 1134 00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:38,049 are not much better play and Joe Nickell 1135 00:54:41,489 --> 00:54:39,940 what's the best one of your books sums 1136 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:41,499 up many of the cases that you looked at 1137 00:54:45,569 --> 00:54:43,210 over these and what's the best website 1138 00:54:49,650 --> 00:54:45,579 for you to have a look at well my 1139 00:54:52,819 --> 00:54:49,660 website is is joe nickell calm and that 1140 00:54:55,769 --> 00:54:52,829 you have to spell nickel and IC ke ll 1141 00:54:58,079 --> 00:54:55,779 and that has some of some of my work 1142 00:55:01,469 --> 00:54:58,089 it's it's hard to pick just one book 1143 00:55:03,930 --> 00:55:01,479 because i have written maybe forty some 1144 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:03,940 books and maybe that's 38 too many but 1145 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:05,890 it's hard to say just which ones if you 1146 00:55:11,219 --> 00:55:07,930 if you were interested in historical 1147 00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:11,229 mysteries you would want my unsought 1148 00:55:16,170 --> 00:55:13,619 istry if you were looking at religious 1149 00:55:18,329 --> 00:55:16,180 miracles you'd want my the science of 1150 00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:18,339 miracles if you were interested in 1151 00:55:22,589 --> 00:55:20,799 ghosts the science of ghosts and so on 1152 00:55:23,999 --> 00:55:22,599 how do you go when you sit down towards 1153 00:55:27,870 --> 00:55:24,009 the history channel and ancient aliens 1154 00:55:30,749 --> 00:55:27,880 are on it's like von Daniken he's back 1155 00:55:33,390 --> 00:55:30,759 he's back make sure i've taken my blood 1156 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:33,400 pressure medicine joe nickell this has 1157 00:55:36,089 --> 00:55:34,930 been the highlight of my weekend then 1158 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:36,099 it's great to know you're a bourbon 1159 00:55:41,650 --> 00:55:39,729 drinker man yes and and the author of a 1160 00:55:45,940 --> 00:55:41,660 book called the kentucky mint julep 1161 00:55:49,390 --> 00:55:45,950 which you know is a bourbon drink and 1162 00:55:53,140 --> 00:55:49,400 and I I claim some authority to being an 1163 00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:53,150 expert and that that that book has as my 1164 00:55:59,020 --> 00:55:55,940 title Colonel Joe Nick Lyman I am a 1165 00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:59,030 Kentucky kernel as authentically so as 1166 00:56:03,279 --> 00:56:00,559 Colonel Sanders in other words the 1167 00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:03,289 governor the governor bestows the title 1168 00:56:07,870 --> 00:56:04,760 Colonel on you the same way the Queen 1169 00:56:09,789 --> 00:56:07,880 would make you a knight and sir so and 1170 00:56:11,980 --> 00:56:09,799 so and though of course I'm not 1171 00:56:14,650 --> 00:56:11,990 suggesting in any way that that the 1172 00:56:16,930 --> 00:56:14,660 governor's making you a colonel is 1173 00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:16,940 anything a fraction as prestigious as 1174 00:56:22,270 --> 00:56:19,839 the Queen making one a night I mean that 1175 00:56:24,010 --> 00:56:22,280 watch a bit of Adam choice I mean I 1176 00:56:27,279 --> 00:56:24,020 don't do some buzz marketing ii don't 1177 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:27,289 know i don't i don't do that but i say 1178 00:56:34,450 --> 00:56:30,410 that you know find find a bourbon you 1179 00:56:38,109 --> 00:56:34,460 like and then you know get some fresh 1180 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:38,119 mint and a little sugar and a little bit 1181 00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:40,490 of water and muddled them together so 1182 00:56:44,589 --> 00:56:42,049 that you may commence syrup in the 1183 00:56:46,029 --> 00:56:44,599 bottom of your old fashioned glass say 1184 00:56:48,430 --> 00:56:46,039 or whatever is that that's what you need 1185 00:56:51,579 --> 00:56:48,440 to do that wide base glass yeah and you 1186 00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:51,589 make a little mint syrup then you you 1187 00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,049 fill the glass with crushed ice if you 1188 00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:56,000 have it if you don't just use ice cubes 1189 00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:57,440 but it's crushed ice is clearly better 1190 00:57:03,190 --> 00:56:59,599 leaving the spoon in the glass while you 1191 00:57:06,339 --> 00:57:03,200 do that then you pour 2 ounces two 1192 00:57:09,849 --> 00:57:06,349 ounces of bourbon this is a strong drink 1193 00:57:12,730 --> 00:57:09,859 on top now you take the spoon and just 1194 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:12,740 gently stir so you mix up the mints are 1195 00:57:17,470 --> 00:57:14,210 up in the bottom with it with the 1196 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:17,480 bourbon and then just carefully with 1197 00:57:23,079 --> 00:57:20,450 withdraw the spoon you're almost ready 1198 00:57:24,579 --> 00:57:23,089 now you put a sprig of fresh mint in 1199 00:57:27,339 --> 00:57:24,589 from the top so that you can kind of 1200 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:27,349 sniff it as you sip and be careful that 1201 00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:29,690 you sip it because it will knock you for 1202 00:57:33,789 --> 00:57:31,760 a loop if you can gulp it down like it's 1203 00:57:35,319 --> 00:57:33,799 not like a snaps you don't slam it down 1204 00:57:38,289 --> 00:57:35,329 you take your time with that is that 1205 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:38,299 southern thing it is it is and in the 1206 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:40,760 old days you know that the Kentucky 1207 00:57:45,099 --> 00:57:43,130 Colonels left over from the Civil War 1208 00:57:47,319 --> 00:57:45,109 you know it and you need a drink after 1209 00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:47,329 that hell that's right that's right and 1210 00:57:50,970 --> 00:57:49,369 you'd have sort of down away from the 1211 00:57:53,740 --> 00:57:50,980 plantation house you'd have a little 1212 00:57:54,820 --> 00:57:53,750 spring house where you could cold 1213 00:57:56,380 --> 00:57:54,830 natural water 1214 00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:56,390 come out of the little spring house and 1215 00:58:00,640 --> 00:57:58,490 the whole little house was kind of a 1216 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:00,650 little fridge you know so you can keep 1217 00:58:05,650 --> 00:58:03,770 your bourbon in there you could in in 1218 00:58:08,050 --> 00:58:05,660 that wet ground around the springhouse 1219 00:58:11,350 --> 00:58:08,060 the mint would grow in the shade and the 1220 00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:11,360 cool so they go down to the Spring House 1221 00:58:19,270 --> 00:58:15,110 and get some cold water and some fresh 1222 00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:19,280 mint right right off the vine and and of 1223 00:58:23,020 --> 00:58:21,470 course the bourbon and and they would 1224 00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:23,030 take their visiting friends down there 1225 00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:26,090 and sit in chairs will sit around and 1226 00:58:33,940 --> 00:58:28,910 drink drink this drink because if you if 1227 00:58:36,940 --> 00:58:33,950 you treat the mint julep like a mixed 1228 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:36,950 drink and you can just go pitt down a 1229 00:58:44,620 --> 00:58:41,170 lot of mixer and very little alcohol the 1230 00:58:47,590 --> 00:58:44,630 julep is a powerful drink I say two 1231 00:58:51,250 --> 00:58:47,600 things about it I remember once at a 1232 00:58:54,190 --> 00:58:51,260 party a person came up to me and said 1233 00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:54,200 earnestly please don't let Daddy have 1234 00:59:00,820 --> 00:58:57,200 any more of those so that was always 1235 00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:00,830 remember that it's a great quote it is 1236 00:59:04,780 --> 00:59:03,200 it is a great quote and the other is 1237 00:59:06,670 --> 00:59:04,790 I'll have people who will say well I 1238 00:59:08,620 --> 00:59:06,680 think you have to do the recipe a little 1239 00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:08,630 differently somes have this theory or 1240 00:59:12,820 --> 00:59:10,850 that theory about you know how you use 1241 00:59:16,060 --> 00:59:12,830 the mint leaves or what you put in and 1242 00:59:17,350 --> 00:59:16,070 so forth and I say well true but after 1243 00:59:20,590 --> 00:59:17,360 you've had a couple of them it doesn't 1244 00:59:22,450 --> 00:59:20,600 much matter what you do that's true look 1245 00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:22,460 then more information evidence-based 1246 00:59:25,540 --> 00:59:24,050 bourbon information to be found at Joe 1247 00:59:26,740 --> 00:59:25,550 Nickell calm and thank you very much 1248 00:59:28,540 --> 00:59:26,750 having a chat with you I've been won't 1249 00:59:30,460 --> 00:59:28,550 have a chat for a long time job my 1250 00:59:41,470 --> 00:59:30,470 pleasure thanks for asking such good 1251 00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:43,880 coming up on Thursday the fifth of 1252 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:46,640 November that's only in a few days 1253 00:59:51,050 --> 00:59:49,290 Sydney skeptics in the pub the Crown 1254 00:59:52,730 --> 00:59:51,060 Hotel the corner of Elizabeth and 1255 00:59:55,970 --> 00:59:52,740 Goulburn streets in the city kicking off 1256 00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:55,980 around six pm and the torque at this 1257 01:00:02,000 --> 00:59:58,650 month an overview of medical cannabis in 1258 01:00:03,860 --> 01:00:02,010 Australia with dr. Theresa Nicoletti the 1259 01:00:05,690 --> 01:00:03,870 New South Wales Government has recently 1260 01:00:08,420 --> 01:00:05,700 established the Center for medical 1261 01:00:10,610 --> 01:00:08,430 cannabis research and innovation the 1262 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:10,620 center will conduct clinical trials of 1263 01:00:15,410 --> 01:00:13,050 the medical use of cannabis not just for 1264 01:00:18,890 --> 01:00:15,420 terminal cancer patients but for other 1265 01:00:21,530 --> 01:00:18,900 conditions such as epilepsy promises to 1266 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:21,540 be a very interesting talk indeed the 1267 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:24,090 best thing to do is to go to meetup com 1268 01:00:46,700 --> 01:00:27,930 look for Australian skeptics follow the 1269 01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:48,960 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1270 01:00:51,930 --> 01:00:50,200 zone I've come back up to the balcony 1271 01:00:56,370 --> 01:00:51,940 now looking out the thunder lightning 1272 01:01:00,210 --> 01:00:56,380 still going on Wow even that won't even 1273 01:01:02,790 --> 01:01:00,220 scared a bird out of the tree coming up 1274 01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:02,800 on next week's show more reports from 1275 01:01:07,860 --> 01:01:04,480 the National Convention with Maynard 1276 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:07,870 chatting to our one of the one of the 1277 01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:12,490 best people in skepticism folks Wow her 1278 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:13,870 name is not well that's just the 1279 01:01:22,110 --> 01:01:15,490 Lightning I thought Eugenie Scott 1280 01:01:24,330 --> 01:01:22,120 Eugenie Scott was in Brisbane liming for 1281 01:01:26,100 --> 01:01:24,340 the convention so we will look forward 1282 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:26,110 to that interview more from Maine out of 1283 01:01:31,890 --> 01:01:28,210 course at the convention chatting to 1284 01:01:33,930 --> 01:01:31,900 various people and I hopefully hopefully 1285 01:01:37,140 --> 01:01:33,940 we'll have a report from Joe alabasteral 1286 01:01:39,410 --> 01:01:37,150 Heidi Robinson about tune in next week 1287 01:01:41,850 --> 01:01:39,420 and find out but for now for this week 1288 01:01:49,470 --> 01:01:41,860 this is Richard Saunders ducking for 1289 01:01:51,140 --> 01:01:49,480 cover from Sydney Australia you've been 1290 01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:51,150 listening to the skeptics own podcast 1291 01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:54,640 visit our website at wwc a petting zoo 1292 01:02:01,590 --> 01:01:57,730 TV for contacts and archive of all 1293 01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:01,600 episodes since 2008 and our online store 1294 01:02:06,620 --> 01:02:03,910 please support the skeptic zone by 1295 01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:06,630 following us on twitter at skeptic zone 1296 01:02:12,690 --> 01:02:09,640 liking us on facebook and leaving a 1297 01:02:15,540 --> 01:02:12,700 review on iTunes you can also show your 1298 01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:15,550 support by subscribing via paypal for as 1299 01:02:21,330 --> 01:02:19,030 little as 99 cents a week the skeptic 1300 01:02:23,070 --> 01:02:21,340 zone is an independent production the 1301 01:02:25,140 --> 01:02:23,080 views and opinions expressed on the 1302 01:02:27,830 --> 01:02:25,150 skeptic zone and not necessarily those 1303 01:02:37,830 --> 01:02:27,840 of Australian skeptics or any other 1304 01:02:42,820 --> 01:02:40,120 grandmother saunders peanut butter 1305 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:42,830 cookies what you'll need half a cup of 1306 01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:46,130 butter half a cup of brown sugar half a 1307 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:50,720 cup of granulated sugar 1 egg half a cup 1308 01:02:56,980 --> 01:02:54,410 of peanut butter I prefer crunchy half a 1309 01:03:02,020 --> 01:02:56,990 teaspoon of salt half a teaspoon of 1310 01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:02,030 baking soda 1 cup of flour and half a 1311 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:05,690 teaspoon of vanilla the instructions say 1312 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:08,690 cream butter add sugars gradually 1313 01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:11,530 beating until creamy mix in an egg 1314 01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:16,160 peanut butter salt and baking soda blend 1315 01:03:22,990 --> 01:03:19,310 in the flour slowly add vanilla and mix 1316 01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:23,000 well roll into small balls and place on 1317 01:03:29,110 --> 01:03:26,480 a greased cookie sheet press the balls 1318 01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:29,120 flat with a fork would make sure the 1319 01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:33,920 fork is dipped in flour first bake in a 1320 01:03:41,260 --> 01:03:37,910 moderate oven 350 degrees Fahrenheit for 1321 01:03:44,340 --> 01:03:41,270 10 to 12 minutes yield four and a half 1322 01:03:48,330 --> 01:03:44,350 to five dozen and they are just 1323 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:48,340 delicious thanks mum for making